A recent online publication by TB Joshua watch, a SCOAN critic WordPress .com site seemed to compare the healings at SCOAN to the healings in the scriptures and under bias concluded that the healings at SCOAN are incomplete (don’t know where they get this idea) because according to their clearly misinformed source, some of the healings are a process and afterwards require maintenance and as such do not qualify as Biblical healing. We’ve addressed the issue of maintenance of healing in one of our earlier post, (click the link for the full article) they raised a concern claiming that the scoan teaches that God takes away healing on sinful living, fact is nothing of sort has ever been taught in SCOAN, this is just one disgusting method of word twisting TB Joshua watch use in their campaign of calumny against the ministry of TB Joshua. The only concern we noticed was of value clarifying was an arrant misconception; questions of the healings at SCOAN being a process and not instantaneous.
We maintain here that the claim that healings in scoan are not instantaneous is a false one, one that was falsified by those who enjoy forming intense and grueling debates with false opinions about TB Joshua. Healings in SCOAN are instantaneous to the astonishment of all as can be seen during the SCOAN’S live Sunday services broadcast on emmanuel TV and via internet through streaming faith media, just as the healing in the scriptures. Blind eyes pop open on the spot, those chained due to mental disorder return to normalcy after prayer are immediately loosened, those on wheel chairs and walking aids immediately are healed during prayer with the wheel chairs and aids taken away, those paralyzed, having broken bones, or bedridden are raised to their feet instantly, those with neck collars and lumber corsets throw them away immediately after prayer and walk free of them, those with complications with birth delivery’s deliver their babies instantly on the spot during prayer, the labour process that takes hours on end ends up being only within seconds at SCOAN, (nothing of such has ever been seen before) the demon possessed are immediately delivered with a word of authority and power how are all these healings not instantaneous in their opinion?, which of these cases listed above has ever been healed in stages at SCOAN? Well who knows, Perhaps they’ve seen TB Joshua say to those on the wheelchair, I’ll pray for you today, you’ll walk tomorrow or next week, seems very unlikely as the world would be watching, all we’ve witnessed so far are instantaneous – the more reason TB Joshua is renowned for his healing ministry. if healings occur in processes then i guess there’s not much different between healing and treatment. If they in their usual Pharisee cynicism claim TB Joshua has full control at SCOAN and so manipulates the healings people witness there, how about during the international crusades involving thousands of sick and afflicted people, did he plan and orchestrate the manipulative healings with all the sick in Indonesia, Singapore and South Korea as well? A first hand witness account of one of the crusades with TB Joshua in Surabaya, Indonesia recounts clear proofs of instantaneous healings;
What followed when he began ministering to the crowd was mind-blowing, when he began to pray, the unbelievable happened. I saw neck collars coming off, body braces being removed, people were vomiting poisonous substances as soon as he touched them, I made sure I was close enough among the throngs of crowd to see everything that was going on. After this he went and met those on the wheelchairs and began commanding them to rise in the name of Jesus Christ. One after the other , they began getting out of their wheel chairs people who looked as though there was no chance they would walk again started moving , a truly baffling experience was when he encountered people with evil spirits, when TB Joshua touched them or even came near then they would start screaming, rolling and kicking, displaying all kinds o weirdness. (Acts 8:7, with shrieks, evil spirits came out of many) One man said he was Beelzebub” at first at first I thought he was a mental case, but i soon realized he was indeed possessed by demons. As the prophet went on to deliver him in the power of the Holy Spirit. It was certain that he had no control over his body as he twisted and turned in reaction to the prophet’s commands. He tried to attack the prophet but TB Joshua just commanded his submission each time i had never seen anything like it! At the end of it all the man was a different person, crying and hugging the prophet.
None of this eye witnesses’ experience seems to communicate a healing process… rather one instantly received in Asia continent.
Some critics on TB Joshua watch have condemned the spectacular deliverances that go on in SCOAN, And for this reason, attribute it to the work of demons controlling demons, thereby communicating the same Pharisaical thoughts their precursors advocated on Jesus’ healing and deliverance when they claimed His exorcism was powered by Beelzebub the prince of demons. They forget that such was the pattern of Jesus’ deliverance ministry as well as that of His apostles:
Luke 4:35, ”Be quiet!” Jesus said sternly. “Come out of him!” Then the demon threw the man down before them all and came out without injuring him. (The comparison here with injury shows just how serious the reaction of the man must have been to Jesus’ deliverance)
Luke 9:42, Even while the boy was coming, the demon threw him to the ground in a convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the evil spirit, healed the boy and gave him back to his father.
Mark 9:26 The spirit shrieked, convulsed him violently and came out. The boy looked so much like a corpse that many said, “He’s dead.
Acts 8:7, with shrieks, evil spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and cripples were healed.
As this on-line discussion grows stronger, TB Joshua’s critics surprisingly come out plainly to state the conditions under which they would reconsider their position as his detractors, in saying:
” If his supporters were able to clearly show that he was responsible for a significant number of bonafide, validated healings which could be shown to be equivalent to those found in scripture, we detractors would be forced to reconsider our position.”
pardon us if we don’t take them at all seriously, because they’ve once made it clear on their site with their own words that as far as the truth about the goodness in TB Joshua is concerned, they are a lost cause, their already existing prejudice which they wouldn’t let go of as the Pharisees in Jesus day couldn’t give us enough reason not to take them seriously. worse still, a commenter provided a significant number of video links to medically confirmed instantaneous healings at scoan, and they removed all the links stressing that they needed those equal to those in scripture, a deceptive antic we would look into shortly. Pharisees always question undeniable evidence which to them is a deadly snare. As hurtful as it sounds against them, it’s the truth they are a lost cause, they only state this condition to make it seem as if they’re not stiff-necked when indeed they are, like we’ve once proved on this site where one of their site administrators explicitly declared:
Ian says: PERMALINK
July 20, 2011 at 10:23
“…I should probably be up front with you and tell you that I can 100% guarantees you that nothing you say will change my mind on TB Joshua; if you think otherwise you are wasting your time.
The commenter who addressed this issue on their site was later forced to complain:
Why are not posting my comment??? Remember you said – I quote ” If his supporters were able to clearly show that he was responsible for a significant number of bonafide, validated healings which could be shown to be equivalent to those found in scripture, we detractors would be forced to reconsider our position.” Are you not a man of your word?
This does not mean we do not understand where they’re actually coming from with this post. Their misconception could have probably arisen from the consideration that after healing of some conditions like ulcers with open saws the wounds take days or several weeks to completely cover up and so such healing is a process and not instant, they would rather have the wounds cover up immediately, Or have the hair loss due to cancer be immediately replenished fully on the spot during healing.
To clarify this we would like to explain what they didn’t take time to understand about healings of ulcers and cancers with open sores, sometimes the kind of sicknesses that are brought for healing at SCOAN have seriously eaten up the flesh of the sufferers, many with cancerous fluids oozing out of them, some others with maggots already taking up the saws as a habitat. From the testimonies we’ve listened to on such healings, the patients were in excruciating pains when they first arrived the church as they’ve been suffering since the affliction began, but on prayer from TB Joshua the pains they were experiencing instantly disappeared. the patient would then be able to do immediately what he/she couldn’t do before such as walking with the same foot and stamping it on the floor as the pains had disappeared, but we must realize here that the ulcer did take its toll on the patients body, eating deep into the flesh forming very unsightly deep gorges, having been declared healed these saws and open wounds take a few days or several weeks to cover up completely. From this scenario it’s clear that the healing was instantaneous, and the only time-lapse here was that needed by the body to recuperate from the affliction’s toll on the body, not at all meaning the healing is a process.
To explain this better, we would like to compare this with a tree freshly felled; on felling a tree its clear that it’s been disconnected from its roots but that does not mean its leaves and stalks would wither immediately, but eventually does. It’s the same with healings of cancers and ulcers. The pain immediately disappearing is a sure sign of instant healing and total disconnection from the source of the ailment. The idea that healing in scoan is a process is a blatant lie. God’s response in SCOAN as we know it is always fast and to the point. We encourage readers to take their time to watch the scoan’s live Sunday services on Emmanuel TV and see this for themselves and take note if any of the sick people on the prayer line wouldn’t be healed. This has not even for once been the case. The standard of healing in SCOAN is also the standard of Christ’s ministry and that is everyone was healed.
In Response to your article:
You are claiming here that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who has created the whole world in six days is not capable of healing people in one go ? How big is your God then ? It must be a small, tiny one that comes in the form of T.B. Joshua who you follow blindly without testing the waters as you purport here.
Many flaws are clear here about the administration of ministry. Many failures too. These are done with the eyes closed and swept under the carpet. Although nobody is perfect, yet still it appears to be that this ministry is perfect and is the only ministry that is capable of doing what T. B. Joshua is doing.
I wonder if you ever have asked where T. B. Joshua’s powers coming from and how he has acquired them. I quick glance comparing the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit in scripture and in real life is so much different. Most what is observed and is clearly practiced in this particular form and manifesting is:
Sensory and motor symptoms:
- the feeling of cranial pressures
- the perception of inner sounds
- experiences of inner lights
- vibrating or tickling sensations in the lower back
- tachycardia (rapid heart rate)
- changes in breathing
- spontaneous bodily movements
- sensations of heat or cold moving through the body
- localized bodily pain that starts and stops abruptly
- vibrations and itching under the skin
- unusual, or intense, sexual sensations
Mental and affective symptoms:
- fear
- anxiety
- depersonalization
- intense positive or negative emotions
- spontaneous slowing or speeding of thoughts
- spontaneous trance states
- experiencing oneself as larger than the physical body
- experiences of paranormal consciousness
These manifestations are exactly like in practition in Chi, Reiki, Prana Yama and Kundalini.
This is categorized as the counterfeit holy spirit.
You are of the conviction that this is the manifestation of the Devil or Satan in people.
There are only a few scriptures that show a little bit of those manifestations as you have written here.
Luke 4:35, ”Be quiet!” Jesus said sternly. “Come out of him!” Then the demon threw the man down before them all and came out without injuring him. (The comparison here with injury shows just how serious the reaction of the man must have been to Jesus’ deliverance)
This is clearly not practiced at SCOAN, but a lenghty “interrogation” is taking place, Who the demon is, where he comes from, what it has done. Only once you will see Jesus interact in such matter which is with the demoniac of the Gerasenes. But it is the demon in the demoniac that takes the lead here and NOT Jesus who asks for His name.
So there is no excuse of applying such an “interrogation” other then it is used for to sensationalize the situation with a camera on it and let people “believe” a deliverance is taking place. Nothing in the bible supports such an approach in any way or form. It is also appalling and rediculous to see when someone is saying “you made a mistake in coming here, because this is the arena of liberty in addressing a demon” There is no such story anywhere in Jesus’ ministry. It’s complete and utter hogwash.
Luke 9:42, Even while the boy was coming, the demon threw him to the ground in a convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the evil spirit, healed the boy and gave him back to his father.
Yes, here takes falling down place, but only for a brief period of time. Not a lenghty
depersonaliszation period time of 3-5 minutes screaming and shrieking. If the same Holy Spirit that worked with Jesus, there is no reason make it to a freakshow which is done in SCOAN and again used as propaganda to attract people to the church.
Mark 9:26 The spirit shrieked, convulsed him violently and came out. The boy looked so much like a corpse that many said, “He’s dead.
One occasion of shrieking and convulsing here. It’s not the norm. In SCOAN it is the norm. These must be all comparable “demons” as this boy had who had not even the ablitity to come on his own accord. Yet all people who usually come to SCOAN are coming by their own accord or perhaps with a friend. No such issue here of a continuous ministry as a standard.
Acts 8:7, with shrieks, evil spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and cripples were healed.
I have seen many paralytics and cripples in SCOAN and they are still sitting in their wheelchairs and have their pushchairs. Only to be send away because they were complaining of not being healed.
Your claim that all are healed and set free is a complete and utter lie. Secondly I have seen and observed that some who were declared free and healed are back in the prayer line again and have had now a triple deliverance and shrieking taking place. Totally contradictory of you claiming here that they were set free and healed in the first place. Jesus makes half healings and half deliverances ?
Just to quote back the scripture to you here what you wrote up here and brought forth:
Jesus rebuked the evil spirit, healed the boy and gave him back to his father. Yes ? Was there any mention of a re-healing or a re-deliverance taking place ? Sorry but I can’t find it.
Another thing about ulcers and cancers.
Ulcers are open wounds, usually cancers are not open wounds, but growths in excess in cellular parts of the body. Just wanted to point this out to you.
Open wounds will heal even without being prayed over, it is claimed by T. B. Joshua it is a curse and claims he can break those curses.
Really ? Any biblical support for this, since Jesus was made a curse for us all on the Cross ? Doesit mean for you that when you read in Galatians:
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Galatians 3:1-6
So here a believer comes to the SCOAN and it is declared he or she is under a curse of ulcers of open wounds ? What a complete hogwash and crock again.
How about poor unsanitary and ignorant behaviour of the person themselves and going against the law of nature and trespassing it and make it look to something that is done in this way and could not have been done in other ways.
I would say, let’s bring T.B. Joshua to the hospitals instead of the hospitals to T. B. Joshua.
Let’s see if he can do this there too under the scrutiny of educated doctors with TV Journalism with camera’s right on top of it. If God is not a respecter of persons and distance is not a barrier, please demonstrate this for God and man. I hope I do not have to keep my breath for this do I now ?
And yes healing is a process in SCOAN. I don’t know if there is something wrong with your cognitive abilities, but almost everyone that has been in a wheelchair or had other walking problems are staggering and are even staggering after many days, weeks after that. So yes, it is a gradual process in SCOAN which is praise into high heaven. Knowing also that before these were “healed” they had to walk stairs up at least three flights and more. Just to test them if they actually can walk a little bit. This is the truth and I know this because I heard that first hand of some that had to do this things who were in SCOAN.
Another thing I want to quote to you:
“The pain immediately disappearing is a sure sign of instant healing and total disconnection from the source of the ailment.”
I agree to disagree, pain can be taken away in many ways and forms. It can go away by extensive laughing and releasing endorphins and adrenaline in the body. Also by exitement during an administration when something anxious is taking place, many endorphins and adrenalines are released in the body and remove pain. Not even to speak about fight or flight situations where incredible hormones released from the kidneys giving extraordinary powers and pain relief. Also the supply of oxygen and energy-giving glucose to the brain and muscles is increased; and some bodily processes not vital to the response are suppressed. So very explainable in the first place. You are only
shortsighted if you did not know about this. Usually the above is taking place in such ministries which is a common thing in the Pentacostal circles.
Also I know about people that went and had their X Rays taken with them and had paid over $150,00 for it to be done because they were demanded by SCOAN to do so. None of them came back healed who spend more than 18 months reading faithbooks, tapes, videotapes, DVD’s and their bibles and went to meetings to build up their faith.
Yet still you are denying all these things and sweep them under the carpet because you have only eye for the so called many “healings” that take place.
Nothing what I said has been written in Phariseical style but of genuine observations, making notes, deep convictions, biblical comparison, sincere in truth and of a deep desire to know the Truth. Only to come away from it, disappointed, upset, angry in righteousness and partly depressed of what I have seen and observed over 9 years from knowing about SCOAN. First looking at the website, videos, readings, reports, blogs, Emmanuel TV, Youtube, speaking with others, speaking with those that went and visited SCOAN.
Also I am 100% sure that people with Polio, severe Spinal Curvature, heavily bound wheelchair people, ME, hugesized (basketball sized and over) sufferers of fibroids and serious lung cancer patients will not be healed in SCOAN or anywhere.
With this I refute most of your story here, not all, because some things are reasonable. However a last thing I want to fall over. I have been disturbed by the fact of what you are writing in a fashion like:
“Where Cynisism rots the bones”, and other expressions which are bizarre to me and should not belong to a practicing christian as you try to tell us you are. You are over exaggerating many aspects that are sincerely brought forward by others as genuine concern over a man that you have made to your god. This is complete idolatry, while you should have a relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit yourself and ask for your own anointing instead of “distributing” something what is not a ministry at all. Nowhere in the bible anywhere you see that handing out handkerchiefs was a continual ministry. It is very likely that it only happened once or twice and then it stopped. If anyone wants a point of contact, oil is what was prescribed from way back in the Tabernacle to anoint the sheep and not water. Water is merely a symbol of the Holy Spirit and is not described anywhere for elders to apply on the sick. Oil is. James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
There is no other command from the Lord about water to apply for sickness. Water can also be connected to Marine (Water) Spirits which is common in African cultures. Using the word medium is not an excuse to extend God’s healing powers where there is NO command from the Lord about it. Every other ministry uses oil and it is so.
I am wrapping this up now. I have been in meetings where the Spirit of God was so thick you hardly could get inside the building. Which is regarding this scripture: 2 Chronicles 7:2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD’S house.
Explain to me how the devil could enter in after you have worshipped God with songs and personal dignity ? While you are shouting, “you have made a mistake to come in here in the arena of liberty”.
Think again how the Spirit of God really works and what you see down in SCOAN. It really does not add up and makes no sense either of the biblical proofs that I have brought forward.
Jesus is Lord !
@katharsis
spoken like a true cynic…couldn’t have thought of a better example lol.
Hi katharsis,
There’s really no need for us to respond to the vast majority of stuff you’ve posted here, cos we both know where you’re coming from as a cynic, but for the few bits that do express genuine concerns, we never claimed that God is incapable of healing people in one go, just where did you get that from, the article? I seriously doubt that, you’re the one who bothers about the where His power comes from or how he acquired them, Just as the people in Jesus’s hometown asked having known him since birth,
we don’t cos we already know, God himself performs the Divine anointing on all who have the privilege of becoming his children, TB Joshua recounts this experience of how it all started in the SCOAN’s official website where he explained how he was in a trance for three consecutive days…http://scoan.com/about/prophet-tb-joshua/biography-of-tb-joshua/ but as is the usual with you cynics he must be lying, not telling the whole truth, or there must be something underneath it all.
you also said in your response:
even Jesus himself once asked in mark 9:21-”how long as he been like this” (and the father of the demon possessed boy began explaining- not at all far from happens in SCOAN, the reason for this is for enlightenment, of how the demons entered in the first place and all the other vices to make us be on our guard and not to be ignorant of Satan’s devices, if you really don’t see that necessary by referring to it as “complete and utter hogwash” then I really pity you. ask giles, one of your most prolific commenters on TB Joshua watch who even criticizes TB Joshua and he’ll tell you how much of a necessity it is.
you also said regarding Jesus’s deliverance:
sounds like you were there at the time Jesus was ministering the deliverance to tell the time it took? can you tell us then?
you also said:
you know calling them “open wounds” make them sound like a tiny little scratch, did you watch the video of the terrible ulcer cases above? do you actually know that we’re talking about cases here where the doctors recommended amputation as the only solution? they’re hopeless cases that defy medical solution, perhaps we should start directing all those horrible ulcer cases that come to scoan weekly to you so that you can prescribe a remedy that would cure them, at least they’ve tried every other thing and nothing else seems to relieve them from the excruciating pain, talk more of making the wound heal. the fact that such wounds with deep gorges cover completely in a matter of few weeks is itself a wonder and mystery, Just as our God is God of mystery.
you saying:
yes, Jesus was made a curse for us, but his substitutionary sacrifice doesn’t become effective on those who have not accepted him, and in accepting Him, the prophets and pastors commit to God through deliverance, those who have committed themselves to Him. mind you its only His death on the cross that makes this possible.
you also said:
Jesus never went about the hospitals proving his healing prowess, those he healed were basically those who were brought to him. You can’t change that now, you saying;
is just being cynical, the visitors many of whom are doctors are always taken to the prayer line where this happens, to see with their eyes, if the media like sky and BBC were to request to visit SCOAN, for findings i doubt they’ll be rejected, but as i said, people were always the ones going to Jesus for healing, going to find out the truth, going to hear him speak, not the other way round…
you complained about our writing style in saying:
if you’re not happy with us for exposing TB Joshua watch’s exasperating form of cynicism, then we’re sorry there’s nothing we can do, you saying they “sincerely brought them forward” is just giving them too much credit as you always do. Objective investigations shouldn’t take sides, just as sincere concerns shouldn’t make judgements or reach a verdict, yet they have taken a stand against SCOAN and have have reached a biased verdict on TB Joshua, that makes all the concerns they raise far from sincere. And just as Jesus had no regard for the Pharisees in His day, we have no regard for the current ones, Jesus was the only voice exposing them at the time, but today we refuse to be silent. The world would know them for who they really are. As for the other bits you mentioned; they’re just the norm of TB joshua watch’s cynicism, they seemed to have groomed you pretty well, i just hope you realise where you stand before its too late.
WATCH TBJ: “The pain immediately disappearing is a sure sign of instant healing and total disconnection from the source of the ailment.”
KATHERSIS: I agree to disagree, “pain can be taken away in many ways and forms. It can go away by extensive laughing and releasing endorphins and
adrenaline in the body. Also by excitement during an administration when something anxious is taking place, many endorphins and adrenaline’s are released in the body and remove pain. Not even to speak about fight or flight situations where incredible hormones released from the kidneys giving extraordinary powers and pain relief. Also the supply of oxygen and energy-giving glucose to the brain and muscles is increased; and some bodily processes not vital to the response are suppressed. So very explainable in the first place. You are only shortsighted if you did not know about this. Usually the above is taking place in such ministries which is a common thing in the Pentacostal circles”.
Nice try kathersis,you are a good orator and well educated as you know so much about the human body and its co-ordination with the pressence of different hormones and sensory neurons. but…..you know what i wouldnt want to make you an object for laughter as the rest of your cynics do.all i want from you is for you to listen to yourself talk.can a man with an open ulcer saw be relieved of pain simply because he sees something during an administration that made him overexcited? Or,wait a minuite, could it be the release of adrenaline? Why should i even think to that area…we talk about ulcer here not a sprain or bruise .even if it was,one cant be relieved except there is an aplication of some sort of ice cubes. I think i get your point now kathersis,why you believed one can be overexcited and “feel” releived.iwould give an example on your behave.like a child who has a cut in his hand, at a point he forgets he has an injury and hit another child with the same hand simply because of anger or anxiousness.yes! Thats what i call “feel releived” cos the awareness was taken away by the hormones. of a truth one can be releived of pain but not released.releive is for the temporal and release, permanent. Kathersis,even if i want to sucumb to your cynical hugwash there is one point i have to put forward that will not make me accept.NOTE: if you say adrenaline and the other hormones may releive you of your pain, what causes the closing of the wound.? Can stitching? Definately No! Considering the clips i saw, only the healing christ gives brings about the closure of the “severelly” opened ulcer.
@Katharsis
silly katharsis no wounder you behave like this because your name means ‘cantankerous’ in her mother tongue (ill tempered). No wonder am not surprise any way.
For once i’ll say thanks to watch Tb joshua for the glaring enlightment.
But let me quickly point out a correction for Katharsis. She’s saying using of water as a medium is connected with marine and is not biblical.
Jesus never healed with handkerchief, but Apostle paul made use of it and even attire. Was it comanded by the law? Act 19:12.so that from his body were brought handkerchiefs and aprons, and the diseases departed from them and the evil spirit went out of them.forget the saying that he did it just once.the fact is he did something new and it was continous as people kept getting things from him to set their loved ones free. 2.Jesus’ shadow never healed but peter’s shadow did. In Act 5:16. Are we going to attribute these to a demonic authority and power? simply because It previously never existed? Even The Jesus you say never used water told the bilnd man in John 9:7. ‘When he had this spoken, he spat on the ground and made clay of spittle and he anoited the eyes of the blind man with clay and said unto him go wash in the pool of siloam.he went his way and therefore washed and came seeing.’ isn’t water a medium here? The pool was one of Jesus’ medium at that particular time. God can use any medium.except you doubt that. And are saying the words of Jesus when he said in John 14:12. ‘He that believeth in me, the works that i do shall he do and also greater works than these shall he do because i go unto my Father.’ ARE FALSE. And you are also saying all pastors shouldn’t do things as directed by the Holy spirit, but must be restricted to the same Pattern and materials used in the Bible.
from the moderator: katharsis, your comments are often very lengthy, please try to be more consise next time.
@ Doi,
Ok, if you want to go to extremes, I can too. If you SAY that God can use any medium to express Himself.
Let T. B. Joshua pray over a piece of enriched Uranium with very high doses of nuclear radiation add water to it or Black Mamba poison and add water to it and see if it still works as you purport.
Since you claim that God can use any medium then this should not be exempt because you say that Jesus used saliva and mud, I want to bring also a twist to things in interpretation as I see fit.
Peter’s shadow did not heal at all. It was the presence from God in and around him (Peter) to the people he stood close by as reason that they were healed. That it cast shadows upon them was because of the sun that as in a particular angle shining upon Peter.
That is the right interpretation. Again I can see that you twist scripture as you see fit and as you read it with the naked eye.
Yes, I know you have not investigated the phenomenon Marine (Water) Spirits, I would advice you to do so and see for yourself.
I don’t know if you know but Water is a perfect container to transport demonic powers and demonic entities. Also the reason is because humans are over 75% containing of water.
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. Matthew 12:43-45
Which is clearly true and established here when you see the same people 3 times in the prayer line and go all coughing, shrieking. vomitting over and over again. How come they were not delivered first time ? Jesus was not in it clearly because if it was Him doing it, it was not going to happen like that.
It also clearly shows that those who do this ministry are programmed to do it in this particular format. Clearly not guided or even worse filled by the Holy Spirit either of knowing about the person involved what really is their problem then a personal confession on a plaquard or a written one in a dark office away from prying eyes so then can be assessed whether the candidate is a good one for a deliverance, shrieking and vomitting show.
A one fits all application of T. B. Joshua’s prayed over anointed water does not give a person that operates it the same understanding what the Holy Spirit does with those who are truly anointed by the Holy Spirit.
Clearly my observations show that twisting of scripture and interpretation is to the advance of the ignorant churchgoer who does not investigate scriptures and rather go after the phenonemon of charismatic witchcraft exposisiton and pass it off as Holy Spirit work.
Far from it. Experience and investigation from different organsations who are specialized in understanding spiritual phenomenons learns that most people do not read their bible well at all and are being “programmed” by churches to think in a certain way because a manifestation is taking place and think everything is out of God and their is no other explanation than that alone.
The more chaotic things are, the more they think it is God doing a move. While God made it clear through Apostle Paul that Let all things be done decently and in order 1 Corinthians 14:40
How does it come about that these “devil” stomping churches always operate in chaos and denegrading people to awful positions when they first been riled up in a frenzy and screaming prayer before they start to “operate” the Holy Spirit at their dispense ? As if the devil is deaf or God is far away and can’t hear a whisper ?
And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah? 1 King 19:11-13
The more stampede the better is their opinion and the more they can send it out on camera the more they can attract aspirant candidates for their freakshow on TV. No church in the Old Testament behaved like that, not even Jesus was doing this all the time as a way or making a living, but occasionally when the opportunity took place as God had souvereignly orchestrated it.
Here we see a makeshift organisation that makes a living out of driving “demons” in every Tom, Dick and Harry and sells it to the world. How sad. How immature too, because those who go are spiritual dry inside of true meat that is supposed to be preached inside a church. It is truely lacking.
People only take words from a man when they can do something “spectacular” or have a “talent” to do so. Especially knowing that those who attend are not “gifted” in any way or form.
Pass it off as cynical, but let it be known that there are people around who don’t swallow things as sweet cakes but investigate matters as true Bereans and put it to the test. As every christian should do and this is NOT done at all. Which is hair raising and extremely worrying in a time such as this.
@ WatchTBJoshua,
“if you’re not happy with us for exposing TB Joshua watch’s exasperating form of cynicism, then we’re sorry there’s nothing we can do, you saying they “sincerely brought them forward” is just giving them too much credit as you always do.”
You are not exposing anything, you have only made it worse for those who watch you from a distance and made them more confused. Is that the purpose of this website ? Don’t think even for one moment that your opinion is higher levelled or valued than another, even if you think yourself so. It can also be that everyone of you are brainwashed in your own confusion who God actually is and what the Holy Spirit is.
“Jesus was made a curse for us, but his substitutionary sacrifice doesn’t become effective on those who have not accepted him, and in accepting Him, the prophets and pastors commit to God through deliverance, those who have committed themselves to Him. mind you its only His death on the cross that makes this possible.”
Yes, Jesus was made a curse for ALL mankind. And those that attend to T.B. Joshua’s church ARE christians otherwise they wouldn’t come down for it to believe it. Again another issue that what you are purporting that they need faith to get healed instead of mercy. How can they have faith if they are NOT christians ? Hogwash again.
“Jesus never went about the hospitals proving his healing prowess,”
Yes He did, And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years. When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole? The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me. Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk? And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. John 5:5-13
What you think Bethesda was huh ? As I said, ignorant of not reading bible and yet telling the world about someone you have made your god instead of Jesus Christ of Who He really is. Keep focussing upon a mere man and you will get it eventually instead of building up a relationship with Jesus Christ which is far more important. I feel sorry for Jesus that He is put so far away in the background and only put in front when they feel like it.
Then on top they are defending a man that has put himself in place of Christ himself and everyone has to go to him to get healed, delivered or whatever the situation is. As if Jesus is not a breath away from EVERYONE who believes in Him. As if the Holy Spirit is not near those that ask for Him.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:6-21
Nowhere there is written the name of T. B. Joshua. And you call me cynical ? Get your priorities right and stop worshipping a MAN instead of Jesus Christ.
I will remain,
God bless and may His love and kindness draw you out and bring you close to Him alone and no other man,
@kathersis, the life style of christ should be our lifestyle. yes!.because christ went around and in the process he healed the sick and comforted those who mourn,does it really mean that you must do exaltly what christ did? Area of Calling differs just as the job and office of all christians differs.if you insist we not only measure our charater with that of christ but also do what he did,would you fast 40 days and 40 nights because christ did that? Christ did that because he had a mission to accomplish.mission differs!. if the measure of christ you use for tbj is used for you and every christians where would you belong? You cant compare because christ had a mission like no other. You made mention of people going to tbj for healing as if jesus is not a breath away from everyone” if there was no need for people to go to a man of God who has more faith than they do,why did the father of the demon possess boy cried out saying lord i believe help me overcome my unbelieve and why could the disciples not cast it out?means their faith was not enough.and the man believed but needed jesus’ believe to overcome what ever doubt he had.and jesus could help overcome the unbelieve of the man.you know your problem,you are good in literary reading of the bible but you are just like the jews in john 5:5-13 who saw christ healing of that man as an abolmination and the breaking of the scriptures.if it were to be in this age you critics would have killed jesus before even the time because he broke the scriptures. Haven’t you read about the seven sons of scaver who tried using the name jesus whom paul preaches to cast out evil spirit but in the end the evil spirit jumped on them and gave them serious beating.this should tell you that you cannot do the things of christ like healing because you seem to like it or because you want popularity.NO! you will be expose if you are not called for it.so leave tbj to take his place were God put him cause CALLING DIFFERS !!!
Ok here we go Ene, Foot and Leg ulcers and how to simply heal them with normal attributes from the Hospital or Doctor that are available in Chemists and Surgeries.
There are several key factors in the appropriate treatment of a diabetic foot ulcers:
- Prevention of infection.
- Taking the pressure off the area, called “off-loading.”
- Removing dead skin and tissue, called “debridement.”
- Applying medication or dressings to the ulcer.
- Managing blood glucose and other health problems.
- Not all ulcers are infected; however if your podiatric physician diagnoses an infection, a treatment program of antibiotics, wound care, and possibly hospitalization will be necessary.
There are several important factors to keep an ulcer from becoming infected:
- Keep blood glucose levels under tight control.
- Keep the ulcer clean and bandaged.
- Cleanse the wound daily, using a wound dressing or bandage.
- Do not walk barefoot.
- For optimum healing, ulcers, especially those on the bottom of the foot, must be “off-loaded.”
Patients may be asked to wear special footgear, or a brace, specialized castings, or use a wheelchair or crutches. These devices will reduce the pressure and irritation to the ulcer area and help to speed the healing process.
The science of wound care has advanced significantly over the past ten years. The old thought of “let the air get at it” is now known to be harmful to healing. We know that wounds and ulcers heal faster, with a lower risk of infection, if they are kept covered and moist. The use of full strength betadine, peroxide, whirlpools and soaking are not recommended, as this could lead to further complications.
Appropriate wound management includes the use of dressings and topically-applied medications. These range from normal saline to advanced products, such as growth factors, ulcer dressings, and skin substitutes that have been shown to be HIGHLY EFFECTIVE in healing foot and leg ulcers
Ene, did you really read: John 15:1-8 where we are told BY JESUS HIMSELF THAT EVERYONE IS CALLED. I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be MY DISCIPLES. John 15:1-8
What is this for nonsense that calling differs ? We are all called to be HIS’ Disciples.
“Disciple” of Jesus Christ”", Noun, Someone who believes, helps and practices to spread the doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Not only by word, but by practical application as well. Which is, Preaching the Word, Healing the Sick, Casting out Demons and Pastoring the Sheep.
Even though many are called, few are chosen, it still means that everyone has a calling that is applicable to everyone’s needs for another.
Secondly I have to repeat to you again the following scripture where Peter says:
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are NOW the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10
Ofcourse you can go into saying, yes, some are apostles, some are prophets, some evangelists, some are pastors, some are teachers. Etc. Etc.
Who are prophets to the nations ? Who speak out warnings from God ? Who prevents and diverts the course of a nation ? Who brings people to repentance by His Words ? Everyone who is willing to follow Jesus Christ has this task. It’s Called simply the great commission.
Everyone is part of it and should be part of it and yet you say Umm well, it’s only for some you know, don’t think it is for anyone.
Another thing about Jesus as well Paul. They were several times almost killed. Several times they were exposed to being stoned. So I don’t know what you are on about that Jesus and Paul did not suffer persecution.
Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not? If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.2 Corinthians 11:23-31
All what can observe is that the Letters T. B. Joshua, T. B. Joshua is printed on your eyeballs. Look around man, get out in the world and get wise and get understanding as it says in Proverbs.
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.
Proverbs 4:7-8
And a last thing: “and the man believed but needed jesus’ believe to overcome what ever doubt he had”
This means that they need Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit. Not a human that is standing in the place of Jesus Christ.
You know fortunately the gifts of God are irrevocable (unrepentant), but I can tell you, if it weren’t for running after man that fails so dearly everytime to get it right with Him, God would never heal again through them by choice. However, since God is unrepentant about what He does and has decided and in His mercy He gives us many chances to DO HIS WILL, yet many have gone on their own path and use the gifts they have received and abuse them for their own plans and purpose.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained MERCY through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. Romans 11:29-31
Again it is shows here that God does certain things not because we have a measure of faith in it or have to have, but because of His mercy and grace as well His enduring love and kindness.
Let it be so,
Amen, Amen and Amen
@ Katharsis.
“Let Tb joshua pray over a piece of nuclear radiation and add water to it nd see if it still works as purport.”
After going through this, i felt reluctant to continue reading you comment. With such naked and tempting words, what then makes you different from the tempter who advice Jesus to turn stone into bread? Though in the natural it was a good advice, very good one. but spiritually it was a great temptation to the downfall of the Saviour.
You may not realise it now but sooner or later you will. And you had better rededicate yourself more to God instead of criticising a man of God in such manner.(playing the role of the tempter). Going into the new year with such mind set and tempting spirit will be dangerous.
I really do not have much to say as your comment was too lengthened and irrelevant.
“Let Tb joshua pray over a piece of nuclear radiation and add water to it nd see if it still works as purport.”
i felt reluctant to continue reading you comment. With such naked and tempting words, what then makes you different from the tempter who advice Jesus to turn stone into bread?
@Doi, that really says it all for her already
@ Doi,
Who was tempting who ? Nobody was tempting anyone here. Your conviction is that God can use any medium.
Medium, noun: An intervening SUBSTANCE through which something is achieved.
You are clearly renege on what you and all in SCOAN believe. It is been said all the time. God can USE any medium. Radioactive Uranium is a Medium, occurs in many isotopes.
Isotopes, Noun: One of two or more atoms with the same atomic number but with different numbers of neutrons.
Atomic nuclei consist of protons and neutrons bound together by the residual strong force. It’s about force, so what is your problem ?
You are constantly talking about transferring powers between the body for restoration of nuclei and you have a problem with that ?
This has nothing to do with any devil or demon. You are way over in your head about that.
Black Mamba Poison: It has a reputation for being very aggressive, explosive and highly venomous.
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Where is your faith in when God can use any medium to heal. Yet still you want to renege in your belief.
Nothing has to do with temptation, but your warped belief that God can use anything or any medium for His purpose.
Do we know where the water comes from ? Where has it been ? Is it contaminated ? Can you proof it is not contaminated ? With the forces from demons instead of the Holy Spirit ?
It is relevant, it is very relevant. You don’t have any proof regarding that. We just have to believe what someone says. Why do you have a problem that I am a skeptic about it ? Because it is proven that you can even make a statue and let a person believe it has some powers of luck and with crafty words you mislead people of what it can do.
Deceptions is very clever in disguising itselves in any way or form.
Are you telling me that God could not neutralize the powers or radioactivity or poison ? Are you telling me that you are serving such a small tiny God that you cannot proof any of this ?
Do you have fear ? Have you not read in the bible: 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Come on Doi, you just are stuck because you know deep in your heart that you are just copying something that another person says instead of what God says.
Jesus did not make any ministry as a command of spraying water. It’s a lie and you and I know it.
God works with individual anointing which origins from the Father and Jesus is the Giver of Him who is the Holy Spirit.
I know plenty people who had handkerchiefs (Oral Roberts), coins (Marilyn Hickey), ltitle bags with water from Israel (Peter Popoff), Wristbands ( T. B. Joshua) and I can go on and on. Just investigate them one by one and see for yourself.
It is as old as trickery is. Snake oilmen. Tricks is what most ministers are great in and make money out of it as well.
You are telling me when Jesus is telling us about rivers of living water shall flow out of your bellies, it means anointed water in a bottle ?
It has nothing to do with what you say criticizing, it is about unmasking people that making a show of it and using it and worshipping it as the only solution in the world. While God heals people without anything being used. The reason is because the word is not taught right.
Your want faith in people to believe ? Here: Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
It very well means that people who do not have faith do not hear the Word of God either. So then. What is missing here ? Why is it not happening for many ? It is so. Because errors in translations are not showing the people faith or is it the teachers that cannot bring it over. It’s definitely not trained, not taught, just make a shortcut and use a medium and make it to a ministry.
It’s like Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to the Water Ministry, the chosen way from God to make one whole. This is not mocking it is just showing that you do not know what God asks for our lives.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
So the water aspirant in the Church is the seeker for the reward that diligently seek God ?
What’s wrong with just laying on of hands and oil as it is done by Jesus, the Elders, or any believer ?
Explain for me how it comes that not every church does the same ? Why is there not a water ministry mentioned in the bible as well ? Like L’Ministere L’eau in Antioch, Or Smyrna, or in Philidelphia, or perhaps in Sardis. None of them do. None. No Pastors or Prophets, or Disciples with handkerchiefs, water bottles, etc. etc.
Eventually you will fail to see the difference between Kathasis, Doi and Soe. Its apparent Kathasis is using you for personal entertainment and amusement basically to see if he can win a battle of wits against you.
T.B.Joshua is a true Man Of God period.Those who believe this dont owe any explanation to anybody.
Wow! Katharsis obviously has too much time on his hands. I believe in divine healing. The truth will always prevail in Jesus’ name. Amen!
Emmanuel ! I’m Johnson from arusha Tanzania
I’m Soo happy for emmanuel tv to be. There coz it helps me alot to be in the position of
God . I and my family are really happy and blessed with emmanuel tv and Prophet T.B
Joshua .Praise the living GOD’
We Lov all in JESUS NAME. AMEN’.
Thanks Johnson for testifying of Gods goodness in your Life through Emmanuel TV and the ministry of TB Joshua, its good to remember that God will continue to reach out to His people through His prophet no matter what others say of Him.