By now you’ve probably heard or read many rumors about TB Joshua online, those continually surfing the internet for information on TB Joshua and SCOAN would probably agree that the climax of it all is at TB Joshua watch, a SCOAN critic wordpress.com site, as they seem to see nothing else with their cynical eyes but the alleged negative reports about TB Joshua and nothing seemingly good in him, just as Jesus said of the Pharisees who always spoke evil of Him;
You brood of vipers; how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. Matt 12.34
This clearly shows that all the malicious comments and spiteful articles they publish about TB Joshua very possibly reveals a much deeper filth within them as Jesus himself stated above. With the articles and responses on TB Joshua watch coming across as rank blasphemies against the Holy Spirit by attributing the work of the Holy Spirit in SCOAN to demonic powers, it isn’t at all difficult for a faithful and sincere Christian of weak faith visiting their site to fall away and even become an enemy of God just by reading their subtly misleading articles or at best have a seed of doubt sown in his/her heart, in this sense their site is a clearly a stumbling block in another’s path (which the scripture dreadfully warns against-Rom 14:21) worse still is that they with their articles drag the name of Christ’s church into the mud and hence cause the atheists to blaspheme the name of God Almighty, an example is this comment left on their blog by this atheist;
Stuart H PERMALINK
October 19, 2011 7:41 pm But the biggest problem with this ‘priest’ is the same as with all other priests. They are telling people that there is a god and you can affect they way things occur by praying to ‘him’ when in fact there is no such thing. All priests are scammers and frauds; some just take more money than others from their followers.
“As it is written God’s name is blasphemed among the gentiles because of you” Romans 2:24
Another commenter, noticing how their articles had even caused the unbelievers to blaspheme God’s name responded to TB Joshua watch in these words;
alan basha PERMALINK
October 20, 2011 4:07 pm THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS SITE, YOU PEOPLE AND MANY OTHERS LIKE YOU ARE DOING….GIVING STUART H, AN UNBELIVER, AND MANY OTHERS LIKE HIM, REASONS TO COME AGAINST OUR FAITH. IT IS A SHAME!!!!I HOPE STUART’S COMMENT WILL AWAKE YOU AND STOP THIS FOOLISHNESS. JESUS HAS NOT CALLED ANYONE TO CONDEMN OTHERS BUT TO SHARE THE GOOD NEWS OF HIS SALVATION.
But listening to faithful reproofs is not at all their style, being hell-bent to frustrate TB Joshua’s ministry, Jesus himself did warn us of the likes of TB Joshua watch when He said;
“Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe through the man whom they come” Luke 17:1
It may be difficult for some to find fault with what they publish sometimes because they often mix lies with a bit of truth to deceive; the same disgusting tactic employed by that old serpent. While they claim to be raising genuine concerns its clear that whatever concern they might raise is far from genuine as their entire blog heralds a prejudiced undertone, it isn’t hard to notice that they’re cheap fault-finders; looking for the slimmest fault in TB Joshua’s ministry so that they can jump on it like dogs on a bone a very sure way in which the Bible teaches many would fall away in the last days and lead others astray. Jude 1
Must Scriptural Healing Follow an Existing Pattern?
- Jesus healed in diverse methods
Very recently TB Joshua watch seem to be claiming that the healings in SCOAN are happening in methods contrary to the methods found in SCRIPTURE and so raises a red flag as to the authenticity and genuineness of the healings taking place there. As false as this statement sounds, going on about following a specific healing style is not at all scriptural, so what in the world are they thinking? because All Biblical Divine Healings did not follow a specific template or procedure; this fact is proven throughout the scripture, healing method’s varied in the New testament with Christ as well as his apostles;
- Christ touched, matt 8:15,
- Christ spoke; matt 9:6-7, mark 10:52, John 5:8-9
- Christ used saliva; mark 8:22-26
- Christ plugged a man’s ear with fingers and placed spittle on his tongue; mark 7:33-35
- Christ anointed with clay; John 9:6
- The afflicted touched Christ’s cloak; matt 9:20-22, matt 14; 36, Luke 8:44
There was no one specific method, or process. In fact some of the processes used by Jesus had never been used before, Just as some used by the apostles like peter’s shadow causing diseased bodies to be healed had never been heard before then. So what’s the fuss about healing methods all about? Why should the healing methods of TB Joshua be their headache and not the sight of people receiving freedom?
On taking a closer look, we discover that this is no different from the Pharisees attitude to discredit Jesus’ miracles and pass them off as sourced by demons, evidently, the healing of the sick did not matter to them at all, talk more of finding better ways of enabling more of the sick benefit from the healing grace in Jesus ministry, when the Pharisees discovered anyone healed by Jesus, their concern was not rejoicing with the healed patient but rather how that healing broke the law or the traditions of the elders and scribes, as it was with the Pharisees during Jesus Day, so it is with the current ones we have on TB Joshua watch today. The relief of the suffering poor does not matter to them at TB Joshua watch, but how such healings and charitable works must have violated scriptural proceedings, which is then followed by an outright discouragement to the sick from visiting the SCOAN.
On the healing methods in scoan, a reputed critic on TB Joshua watch raised this point which is evidently equal to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit;
Mr Terrific PERMALINK
November 25, 2011 4:26 pm @ Nanardi,I already mentioned on this site about the ancient Chinese practice of Qigong or Chi Gong and how the maneuvers are no different from the way TBJ does with his body, hands, legs, eyes, feet. Then also is the Kundalini Spirit, which is a counterfeit of the Holy Spirit, and is so prevalent in many churches today
TB Joshua isn’t the only General of God who operates in this way, there are many other prominent minister of God as well, ministering to the sick with their body, hands, legs, eyes and feet, which he attests to by saying the method is “prevalent in many churches today”, are they now passing of all these ministers as kundalini or whatever it is they call it? does meditation make believers pagans simply because some pagans also practice meditation? Jesus often laid hands on the sick during his earthly ministry, Following the examples of Jesus and the apostles, many contemporary healing ministers have adopted the laying on of hands as a part of what they do when ministering to the sick but that doesn’t at all mean that that’s all to it and any other method but laying hands is satanic, a commenter on TB Joshua watch explained this even better when he said:
…I believe we should mind the SOURCE of a miracle more than the METHOD. And the source is known by what the method accomplishes…healing, deliverance, restoration etc. there are many “weird” methods of healing in the bible that one would be labeled satanic if tried by anyone today. If these people lived in the biblical days they would have ascribed Moses hanging a snake as devilish or Jesus using saliva and mud to heal as satanic. The problem is that we take “weird and unexplained = Satanic” which is blatantly untrue. It’s called “miracle” in the first place because how it happens is mystery, if the process is understood it becomes “treatment” not miracle.
Since the occurrence of miracle is in itself a mystery, it’s not surprising that the cynics at TB Joshua watch should form so many negative impressions about it as people do with all other things beyond human comprehension. It is fact that People always tend to fight what they do not understand, what they do not understand they fear, what they fear they hate and what they hate they seek to destroy.
Coming up in a later post: How scriptural are TB Joshua’s healing methods?
We cannot inteprete God & therefore His ways cannot be our ways.
The things of God can not be interperted in human wisdom, tb joshuawatch should be careful.
response to article:
Christ touched, matt 8:15,
Christ spoke; matt 9:6-7, mark 10:52, John 5:8-9
Christ used saliva; mark 8:22-26
Christ plugged a man’s ear with fingers and placed spittle on his tongue; mark 7:33-35
Christ anointed with clay; John 9:6
The afflicted touched Christ’s cloak; matt 9:20-22, matt 14; 36, Luke 8:44
Very nice scriptures that shows the true meaning of Jesus Christ anointing upon Him.
No problem with that. But let’s now look at the counterfeit one.
I really would like to hear from God Himself THE COMMAND to bottle water in a enclosure, whether been prayed over before or after with implying it is anointed water.
How MANY times do I have to tell you all about WHAT DID YOU ALL KNOW ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT AND HIS WORKINGS AND APPLICATION before you entered SCOAN ? No answer is ever given, except whatever the manifestation is even if it looks “good”, IT Must be from God.
Most of you have lived and spend almost their entire life in SCOAN but never looked beyond anywhere else. No wonder that you would say what you would see is passed off as Holy Spirit.
TB Joshua has people shake wildly as he throws and slashes his hands (sometimes using his feet). He is shown healing someone’s behind by grabbing his own. He shakes and wobbles his hand toward the recipient. He will squat and the person uncontrollably squats, he stands and they stand. All this is going on while the announcer says Mal.3:6 in the background and telling the people this is surely the power of God. No, this is the closest thing I have seen to voodoo. I have studied the occult and healing methods of different religious persuasions enough to recognize this is not what is claimed. He calls this REMOTE CONTROL.
We see people vomiting worms rocks, shells etc.(vomiting is a native custom to be cleansed) What is stated is that they are vomiting their problems away (some are peeing). Women squat as blood is mixed with urine all this is happening inside the Church with people watching.
He like others in America have learned the power of images. He gives out imprints of his hand on paper for a point of contact for the sick to be healed. He says “my hand” “I do this”, certainly the message that comes through is that it his power, although he attributes it to God.
TB Joshua’s healings can also bring salvation without any Gospel message. He states, “You are receiving this healing for the salvation of your soul” “A miracle today is salvation of your soul” Is this how to be saved? Jesus never taught miracles bring salvation to a soul. Does this imply TB Joshua is more powerful than what Romans 10:9 says ?
Let’s look at Shamanism:
Shamans are recruited from among young persons who are seen exhibiting an openness to the world of sacred meanings than is available to those in the society. Once they are chosen, they undergo a special shamanistic initiation taught by elder shamans. Forms of healing that were passed down and behavior that identify their sacred work. They undergo long periods of training before they are capable practitioners of the sacred and healing arts. It is the same for medicine men and diviners although some inherit their status.
Disease in traditional Africa is usually thought of as caused by some personal agent, such as a dissatisfied ancestor, an evil spirit, or a witch, the last being an “upside-down person” working against communal harmony rather than for it. A distinction is sometimes made between a witch (usually female), who acts in hidden ways, sometimes unconsciously, and a sorcerer (usually male) who is aware of what he is doing. Witchcraft as a source of personal and communal disharmony may be a manifestation of “sin” (disobedience to ancestral norms).
To discover the cause of disease people turn to divination, which is a search for the hidden causes of events. Divination may be used to identify the ancestor who has been reborn in a child, to find the destiny of a person, or choose between candidates for chief, but its most frequent use is to find the cause of disease or communal disharmony. Divination takes various forms in Africa, some involving observation of the relationship between objects, some based on the presence of a divining spirit that takes possession of the person of the diviner and speaks through him or her. The diviner in this case may be understood be understood as a kind of prophet. “It is the shaman’s function to regulate relations between the spirits and the community in order to ensure the community’s well-being. Shamans concern themselves with such matters as locating and attracting game or fish, controlling the weather, detecting broken taboos that bring misfortune, expelling harmful spirits, and especially with curing the sick and guiding the souls of the dead to the spirit world. Because of their special powers, shamans may gain considerable political influence in their communities, as, for example, among the Colorado people of Ecuador. A shaman is said to be chosen by the spirits, selected from among persons of an excitable temperament who are given to daydreaming and visionary experience. Sometimes a shaman is marked for the vocation by repeated illnesses or mental disturbance. The person believed chosen for this calling must undergo an initiatory ordeal, which includes an ecstatic temporary loss of consciousness that symbolizes death and resurrection. Among the most common characteristics of the initiatory ordeal are the supposed dismemberment of the subject’s body, the removal of his or her flesh, and the substitution of new flesh. In many cultures the candidate is believed to receive during this ordeal a mystical light that enables him or her to discover the secret places to which lost souls have been taken. The recovery of souls whose loss or theft has caused misfortune is a major method of shamanic curing.”
I think I pretty summed and exposed it up now to a T. I am feeling sorry for everyone you that you are spiritually blind about this and cover this up with bible scriptures and exegesis in the hope that I would not see what you are doing. You can fool a donkey once, but twice it would not bump it’s head against a stone.
I want to make clear to everyone here I am NOT DUMB and STUPID and I am certainly not EVIL either. As a matter of fact I am a extremely nice person and very kind because I know what life has thrown at me. Yet still you bite the hand that is reaching out to get you out of the fire.
For the last time, THERE IS NO MINISTRY OF JESUS CHRIST in a bottle with Water thought of being anointed by someone that they don’t even know where he got the powers from.
I dare you to go back there and ask your questions about this and what he does in his private time when you are not looking and ask him to show you and let you in how he has opened himself up for things that are described up here instead of swallowing everything a person says.
I pray sincerely and with deep concern that you will ASK, Ask everything, don’t take everything for granted ever in your life for as it is presented to you. It’s a thing you must do and it has nothing to do with being Thomas but part of discerning the truth and investigate to the bottom of it all.
God bless you,
@katharsis
why have you just posted large chunks of critic hogwash from letusreason.org here as if it was your own comment?
@Nelson, Lol I googled part of her comment and it popped up on the site you mentioned, good thing you noticed the lot of katharsis comment here has just been copy/pasted. Please katharsis lets keep this to your own words.
in that looooooooooooooog post there isn’t even one good thing she has to say about TB Joshua, nothing less would pass for extreme cynicism and typical phariseesm
@katharsis my advice to you is that as a christain you don’t suppose to be reading occultic book, as for the anionting water, i want you to know that God can use any means to save a soul,always learn to focus on the source than the method, and also be careful with the way you talk about tbj because if at the end you now find out he is GOD SENT what will you do?.please be wise God bless you.
@kathersis, quote.”TB Joshua’s healings can also bring salvation without any Gospel message”. You know,from the start,you speak as someone who knows so much about scoan.but honestly i dont know where you got this from.because from my watching emmanuel tv and the happenings in scoan,there is always a gospel message of believing and accepting christ before healing in scoan at the prayerline section. Secondly,you said again. “He states, “You are receiving this healing for the salvation of your soul” “A miracle today is salvation of your soul” Is this how to be saved? Jesus never taught miracles bring salvation to a soul.Does this imply TB Joshua is more powerful than what Romans 10:9 says?”. Good question.according to Romans 10:9 we deduce that believing in christ is salvation recieved.and so it is important we note that believing and confessing is inclusive of all it takes to be saved.yes!. what is our believe?( believe that christ died on the cross for our sins and rose again in power of the holyspirit and can bring you healing and all you ask in his name). You talk about tbjoshua’s healing bringing salvation! How did tbj say it? If i can recall.”you are recieving this healing for the salvation of your soul”. Mark his words, isn’t that okey with you? he didnot say the healing is the salvation in itself. lastly, what is salvation? Its simply Being saved from the power of evil.But i dont know why you make it sound like a……. The question now what are you being saved from? When pain strikes our body,by his stripes we are healed.and when you are healed you have been set free from the powers of the devil that causes sickness and are saved. Read act 16:29-32.the case of the jailer,who on seeing miracle wanted to be saved.means many do not believe and accept christ until they see miracles.so if miracles can cause them to believe and confess christ as the healer i dont see anything wrong in it.we’re to use every proper means to make people saved. as far as there have been believe and confession made before healing to bring about the salvation we need.
@Katharsis
don’t worry katharsis, the meaning of your name says it all for you, no wonder you behave like this, because your name means ‘cantankerous’ in your mother tongue (ill tempered). so i’m not surprised with the rubbish you’ve posted here
Complements of the season.
We apprecite your works.
Thanks for the encouragement Emmanuel, season’s greetings to you as well.
I know those behind T.B joshua Watch. Having been with them in the London branch for about two years before they left, I can tell you I really know them. They were groomed by the former co-pastors, namely, Angie and Dave who are also members of the TB Joshua Watch. Some of these names are, Giles, karina, David C (the leader of the group) they are white S. Africans given the chance by T.B. Joshua to become disciples of SCOAN, Two Zimbabwean Asians, Tracey and Tina De Sousa. Karina and the husband ( also S, African whites). I urge them to be bold and come out. In due cause, I will mention their surnames, All these guys left with co-pastors when they left the church. I urge them to form their own church and stop disturbing some of us. In their attempt to destroy the church they reported the church to BBC and Sky and went further to convince landlords of various institutions where we worship to stop us from worshiping on their premises. As if that was not enough , they reported us to charities commission. In all these, we have become triumphant. We are still going strong and the Lord continues to move in our mist.
@ Nelson,
It is my own comment. You don’t know who I am. I am none of the members that Lucy Baiden is summing up.
And yes I have studied the occult and it’s side workings and I have seen it first hand as well. You don’t have to believe me, it’s fine with me. But I know that God is using me for this purpose and it is in His will. Otherwise He would not allow me to write it. It has a purpose. I thank Him for His grace on me.
You said I have nothing good to say about T. B. Joshua. Well you are wrong again. The only thing that stands out is his charity to people. But again I want to press here, it is the T. B. Joshua that gets the glory INSTEAD OF THE GIVERS (people in the church) of this money and charity. If it was not because of their generosity T. B. Joshua would have not a lot to give to anyone. I can’t understand that you don’t grasp this yourself, but here I am to explain it to you.
Anyways beside all that, I wish you all good tidings of comfort and joy and that you focus upon Jesus instead of what you all see going around in SCOAN.
God bless you abundantly above all you can imagine, In Jesus Name I pray.
@ Nelson,
It is my own comment. You don’t know who I am. I am none of the members that Lucy Baiden is summing up.
And yes I have studied the occult and it’s side workings and I have seen it first hand as well. You don’t have to believe me, it’s fine with me. But I know that God is using me for this purpose and it is in His will. Otherwise He would not allow me to write it. It has a purpose. I thank Him for His grace on me.
You said I have nothing good to say about T. B. Joshua. Well you are wrong again. The only thing that stands out is his charity to people. But again I want to press here, it is the T. B. Joshua that gets the glory INSTEAD OF THE GIVERS (people in the church) of this money and charity. If it was not because of their generosity T. B. Joshua would have not a lot to give to anyone. I can’t understand that you don’t grasp this yourself, but here I am to explain it to you.
Anyways beside all that, I wish you all good tidings of comfort and joy and that you focus upon Jesus instead of what you all see going around in SCOAN.
God bless you abundantly above all you can imagine, In Jesus Name I pray.
@ Lucy,
We are still going strong and the Lord continues to move in our mist. <~~~
Your are right, in your typing we see what God is saying here. You are in a MIST.
Mist, Noun: Make less visible or unclear.
We thank God for little hints even through those where He is kind to point out what He really means.
Bye Lucy, God bless you,
Katharsis
@ All,
Just a comparison of a Shaman and what you see in SCOAN. You do the math.
- Spirits exist and they play important roles both in individual lives and in human society.
- The shaman can communicate with the spirit world.
- Spirits can be good or evil.
- The shaman can treat sickness caused by evil spirits.
- The shaman can employ trance inducing techniques to incite visionary ecstasy and go on “vision quests.”
- The shaman’s spirit can leave the body to enter the supernatural world to search for answers.
- The shaman evokes animal images as spirit guides, omens, and message-bearers.
- The shaman can tell the future, scry, and perform other varied forms of divination.
Is anyone saying here you don’t see the same in SCOAN happening ? Oh it’s the Holy Spirit you say. Why is it that all God’s moves are Souvereign and not dispensed at will in a water bottle whenever you are ready ? Like you come to church, you sing a song or two and then you go into a frenzy of deliverance with spraying “anointed” water on a person with a problem ? I mean come on. Is this the 21th century way of ministering ? Think again and again.
Ask yourself this ok.
God bless,
I really thought Katharsis was actually speaking out of her feeling and to help God’s people who are weak. Only to realise she gets her comment from some sort of website. This clearly shows why the prolonged but unreasonable comments. Someone who have studied the in and out of occult books.what else do we expect from her. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. They start seeing everything that happens as an act of kundalini or an occult behaviour.
They have become so blinded that the do not even recognise the truth.
@lucy baiden. I know for sure that those behind Tb Joshua watch are those once close to him. But i really don’t understand how you came to this conclusion. Are you saying the names mentioned were once disciples of Tb Joshua? And are you also saying they were former pastors and headed branches? Oh God! This shouldn’t be what am thinking.
@ Doi,
“They have become so blinded that the do not even recognise the truth.”
Doi, you would not even know the Truth or the Power of God, if it would bite you in your hiney.
I suspect that this is also applicable to you:
Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Question Doi,
How can you fight an enemy if you don’t know who they are ? How can you appraise the battle field, huh ? You need to be informed and not follow anything that is made Gospel by any man that sounds nice and tickles the ears. For e.g. quotable quotes, skipping matters, don’t do what is commanded by Jesus Christ, made up stories, acting up while asking for attention, being sly and use tactics to deceive, etc etc.
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves TEACHERS, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their EARS from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:2-4
I
@Katharsis.
I’m not used to weapons on the outside when i’m to decern. Weapons like blackmail, intimidation, propaganda are not used to me. My weapon is the word of God and not what kundalini or any occult say. I have my judgement in respect to God’s word and not with behaviour of people. As the bible never say compare people who call themselves pastors to kundalini. It says in 1 john 4:1. do not believe every spirit,but test the spirit to see wether they are from God.this is how you can recognize the spirit of God. Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus christ has come in the flesh, is of God.but any spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not of God.
So i still think you have a whole lot of work to do if you’re thinking of pulling this man down.because he acknowledges christ.
Can you tell me your primary reason for condemning Tb Joshua? What do you stand to get? Who sent you? How much were you paid? Cos i know for sure that all these did not come from your inner mind.Do you know the repercaution if your claims turns out to be false? Katharsis be careful.
Imuegbe4jesus@yahoo.com
Greeting.some concern about the anointing water if the person who make the water die what will happen the people who hold on the water? Jesus is the living water
In the last days Satan will try to confuse many regarding the authenticity of Christian power and ministry. He will cause many to deny the real power of Jesus Christ working in his followers. He will help many to unlock their soul latent powers (Powers that was given to Adam or our spirit before the fall) which operations are similar to that of the Holy Spirit.
I have done a serious discernment regarding TB Joshua powers and ministry..I concluded that Jesus Christ(life-given Spirit) in him is fully matured.. therefore Christ has no problem coming out of him( thu touch, voice, look, breath, mind…) to bless and deliver.
This is what God has planned for everyone who believes in His Son, a duplication of His son.